Wednesday, 16 October 2013

Another former NDP Affiliated Councillor is going to run for the Liberals - What could be the possible reason for that; I'm just askin'

"The NDP has always been involved in civic politics, albeit in an informal way, said Lorraine Sigurdson, president of Manitoba's NDP. While party politics have no official role at city council, most sitting members have affiliations to one of the province's three major parties. Five have formal ties to the NDP: Couns. Jenny Gerbasi (Fort Rouge), Lillian Thomas (Elmwood), Dan Vandal (St. Boniface), Harvey Smith (Daniel McIntyre) and Russ Wyatt (Transcona)."

So once again, we have the spectacle of a formerly NDP affiliated city councillor deciding to throw their hat in with the Federal Libs. Haven't we seen this before? I'm just askin'.

"A former provincial New Democrat, Vandal has been a member of the federal Liberal party for only six months. Nonetheless, he was invited by Liberal Sen. Maria Chaput to co-chair Justin Trudeau's party leadership campaign in Saint Boniface.
Vandal said Tuesday that should he win a Saint Boniface nomination contest expected next spring, he looks forward to working with Trudeau.
"I'm not taking anything for granted. The first challenge is to win the Liberal nomination. I expect there will be other people interested in running," Vandal said in an interview." Really Dan? I'm just askin'.

Yes Dan, I'm sure you are "not taking anything for granted" and you ARE "looking forward to working with Trudeau". Cabinet Minister aspirations? No, that COULDN'T be it! Could it? I'm just askin'.

This has a very familiar, traditional LPC old style "politics" feel to it. Get a former prominent New Democrat to join the LPC and then run him in a nomination meeting where he'll run against " other people interested in running". Yeah, sure he'll run against "other people". Colour me cynical. Anyone ever hear of someone named "Glen Murray"? Again, I'm just askin'.

And what about Kevin Lamoureux? Two Cabinet Ministers from Winnipeg? I don't think so! Parliamentary Secretary to someone Kevin? Would you be open to that? I'm just askin'.

I say go ahead; people are not so easily duped and are so fed up with the way politics is played and cynical, they could quite well vote in a New Democrat, or even return Glover in response to a Vandal candidacy.

Don't expect the NDP to not run a strong candidate here. And no, it isn't the NDP's fault if the Lib candidate loses. And given how I feel about people jumping ship with what any reasonable person MIGHT think was the possible motivation of a Cabinet Position, seeing Glover being re-elected doesn't really bother me much. No, one Tory MP, DOESN'T, a Harper Cabinet, make.

Be careful for what you wish for here Dan, you might be in for a very rude surprise.

What would you do then?

I'm just askin'.


  1. Regardless of my personal political leanings, I really feel that there is a significant shift happening. The same shift that seems to take place after any government has been in power for a long time here in Canada. People have gotten sick of Harper and they are just indiscriminately jumping on the Trudeau bandwagon because they think it is the best strategy to beat Harper (and because let's face it, Mulcair is alienating many). Short of a coup, I see a huge loss for Harper in the next election. Unfortunately he will be losing to a leader and a party that is almost identical to his own, in legislative terms if not stylistic ones.

  2. Lets not forget Liberal Larry Desjardins in St.Boniface jumping to the the NDP when Schreyer was one seat short of a majority in 1969. Was that cynical? The NDP went on to years of wins and Desjardins went on to become a top cabinet minister.

    I won't even go into Gary Doer working for Harper government in Washington.

    I think it is wrong to assume that affiliation with the NDP provincially translate federally. Are they not separate parties?

    I know some some partisan NDP people will be upset but many NDP and Liberals and others who voted for Vandal (80% + in the last election) will probably welcome him.

    As for cabinet, who can say? There are generally two cabinet ministers from the province over the last decades. The criteria for choosing them will vary on various reasons.

    If the Liberals become government, it is possible that two Liberal MPs could both end up in cabinet.

    Anyways...all speculation now.

    But I don't think the NDP can act holier than thou after Larry Desjardins. And I haven't even gone into some of the things that happened in other provinces to get the NDP in power.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. But I don't think the NDP can act holier than thou after Larry Desjardins" John, that wasn't the point of my post, and I think you know it. Vandal is a political animal; just like Murray. I was pointing that out and that his choice to run for the Liberals was purely based on a chance to have real power; which is entirely what the Liberals are about. I am glad he has come out and shown himself for what he is. As for the differences between provincial and federal, "NDPs", as a life long New Democrat, I can tell you there is no difference; you don't know what you are talking about. You Libs love playing up the idea that Federal and Provincial Lib parties are not the same because the Provincial parties are so right-wing and reactionary, that if people figured out they were one and the same, you guys wouldn't win another federal election. You NEED to maintain that frame; it is the ONLY way you guys can hang on to power at the expense of the NDP. At best, your reply was intentionally obtuse.

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    3. It is clear some NDP and furious about Vandal. Desjardins was a political animal and the decision to recruit him was done by a premier who was determined to get power at the expense of the Liberals.

      Russ Wyatt may have some provincial NDP but he threw them under the bus federally so I suspect there are differences between the parties in his mind.

  3. Kirby:

    You wrote in part "because let's face it, Mulcair is alienating man"

    Or not.

  4. I think the most important issue with Vandal is his refusal to stand up to Ridgewood South. Will he stand up for sustainable, smart development and urban policy at the Federal level if he doesn't put his foot down on plans for costly sprawl at the municipal level?

    I can't be too harsh on people who'll occasionally jump Lib if they genuinely think they can make real progressive change within the confines of the centre-right, neoliberal party. Nevertheless Vandal signing up for much of Katz's agenda as a EPC member does lend A LOT of credence to Cramer's characterization.

    I don't think Mulcair isn't gaining traction because he's disagreeable, I just think he has NO IMAGE outside of Quebec. The Dippers really need to consider better messaging to the Rest of Canada if Canadians outside Quebec area actually going to think of something when they hear "Mulcair".

    1. Russ Wyatt and Brain Mayes, associated with provincial NDP voted for Ridegwood. Will they be tossed out of the provincial party for being part of Katz's EPC? Are they power hungry?

      I guess the problem is that the provincial NDP is that the provincial government is the main developer of Bridgwater in Waverley West and receive money for each house built. And all that was was approved by the provincial NDP. None of the development began during the Filmon years. It is all Doer/Selinger years.

    2. John your comments are simply deflection from the content of my post. It in no way invalidates what I wrote. Honestly, I don't care about Desjardins; I wasn't old enough to vote. My point is that Vandal is obviously doing this with an eye on a cabinet post. It is clear. I don't care what anyone else does John; I care what Vandal did. Keep your eye on the ball, OK?

    3. "Russ Wyatt and Brain Mayes, associated with provincial NDP voted for Ridegwood. Will they be tossed out of the provincial party for being part of Katz's EPC?"

      I think this, plus some of the comments you made in the twitter exchange, have forced me to make this request.


      I don't have any formal position with the party, I'm currently not a member of the party, nor do I channel the party's "collective consciousness". I voted Liberal in the last Federal election and could see myself voting Liberal or Green in the next provincial election if they were the best way to keep the CON out.

      If you want to ask what New Democrats think, go to their convention and conduct a statistical survey of the rank & file or read the policies adopted or review the public statements of the party elite.

    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

    5. That is a very good point. I wish people would actually engage card-carrying New Democrats and the party itself what they and it, think and believe instead of smearing us with false allegations and unfounded half-truths. Frankly, I think its fair to ask how can you have this discussion when the Federal Liberal Party Leader has said he isn't going to reveal what his party believes and will do in government until just before the next Federal election.

  5. Think my eye is on the ball. Most people people who enter politics know that being in cabinet is where they can achieve more than in any other position. It is why Vandal joined the EPC even though he had been a long time rival for Katz.

    As mentioned before, there are usually two cabinet ministers from Manitoba in government. Vandal could be very one of them in a future government. No guarantees that the Liberals win in 2015. Or after.

    I realize some NDP are angry but there are a long list of provincial NDP who were federal Liberals who went on to do go things for the federal party as cabinet ministers and in leadership position.

    Heck, I can even thinking of one particular provincial Liberal who went on to be federal NDP leader.

  6. Don't think I have asked anyone here what the NDP are doing.

    I think I said that some NDP are angry about certain things such as Vandal.

    Don't think I have smeared anyone either. People don't always have the same provincial, federal on municipal affiliations. Mulcair was a Liberal. He may have been one because there was no provincial NDP but the same could be true for someone in Manitoba. The weakness of the provincial Liberals might easily lead some to the NDP or in the case of Gord Steeves, to the PCs.

    Vandal won 83% in the last civic election. He isn't parachuting into a riding as some candidates have done. This is home riding and he knows the riding well.

    It should be one heck of a fight for St. Boniface.

    1. "Don't think I have asked anyone here what the NDP are doing." - John Dobbin

      Perhaps look a few comments up.

      "Russ Wyatt and Brain Mayes, associated with provincial NDP voted for Ridegwood. Will they be tossed out of the provincial party for being part of Katz's EPC? Are they power hungry?" - John Dobbin

      It asks what the NDP will be doing, but pretty much same thing: asking folks to get into the collective unconsciousness of the party.

  7. John, you are either being purposefully obtuse, or you aren't getting my point. OK, so one more try. I don't care what anyone else has done, got it? I am TALKING ABOUT DAN VANDAL! Your argument is like what a kid uses, you know, Johnny did it. I don't care. I REALLY, don't care. I hope Vandal gets clobbered. As I said in my post, one troy MP doesn't a cabinet make. Its not that hard to understand. Why don't you try?

  8. I asked as a general question about what NDP might do about some of their EPC members. It wasn't directed at you in particular as if you were part of the decision-making process of the party.

    And I get that you are angry at Dan Vandal. And you seem to be quite angry at me although I am not quite sure what for.

    I will take leave of this blog as I certainly don't want to upset you further.